Big Muddy: An exam-type question, answered by several Con-law professors.
A number of Con-law professors participate in a listserv, an email service by which members or guests can post a question and elicit comments. The following query was posted by a political science professor:
We’re discussing Gibbons v. Ogden. The student asked whether Congress could regulate goods that started in Duluth, Minnesota, came down the Mississippi River, and disembarked in Winona, Minnesota. No other state was directly involved, but would the navigation be enough to translate this into “interstate” commerce? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Leaving off the full names of the other professors, quite distinguished, I might add, here are the four responses in the order of posting:
1. I think this would be covered by the Shreveport Rate cases in the 1920's (I believe), where the ICC was given jurisdiction over interstate rates because of their potential effect on interstate commerce.
2. We're taught, I believe in U.S v. Morrison [Lopez, actually, but with the later Morrison], that Congress has the power under the Commerce Clause to regulate three things: channels of, instrumentalities of, and activity having a substantial effect on, interstate or foreign commerce, and with the Indian Tribes.
I see the river as a literal channel of interstate commerce. Presumably Congress has the power to prohibit fraudulent transactions afloat on the river, just as it does those that use the mails and the wires.
The example hypothesizes a one-state, apparently intrastate transaction, however suppose the buyer (or seller) happens to be an Indian tribe. Or that the recipient intends to forward the goods across a state line or to another nation following the next step in either production or distribution. I'm reaching to cover the three bases in the text granting Congress power over commerce with foreign nations, among the foreign states and the Indian tribes, obviously. Art. I, Sec, 8, Cl. 3.
In short, under the modern (since 1937) fact-based approach, instead of the old label-based approach (local vs. non-local, direct vs. indirect, production vs. distribution), it seems that more facts are needed before one can say that a particular transaction certainly does or does not constitute interstate commerce. Unless, of course, it takes a ride down that big interstate channel. Or, as Sandy pointed out, the Shreveport Rate cases control because of potential effect.
Which raises another question. If a local artisan, a maker of, say handicrafts (wood carvings, local wood) for sale at local fairs within the state, puts his product aboard his van and drives along Interstate 80, the big federal highway that crosses the country, then exits the highway within the state in order to reach the fair, has he thereby entered the stream of interstate commerce by his choice of national vs. local roads? Seems a bit far-fetched to me but I-80 would seem to be a channel of interstate commerce, just as the river.
The underlying question is whether Congress, if it wished, could use the interstate nature of the river and the federal highway as jurisdictional hooks or bases on which to assert federal power for criminal or commercial regulatory purposes. Mail and wire fraud, river and highway fraud... My [rs] guess is that it could. Has it?
3. The commerce cases are [a] wonderful tool to get students to watch the Court grapple with various rules and their unintended consequences. Sandy is right that the Shreveport case probably most closely mirrors your facts, but it was built on a number of attempts to make good on CJ Marshall's pledge that there WERE things that MUST be left wholly to the states in Gibbons ("The completely internal commerce of a State, then, may be considered as reserved for the State itself."
US v. EC Knight (1895) gives us the direct / indirect test .... if commercial activity wholly within one state has what the Court determines to be direct effects on interstate commerce, then, the Court rules, Congress may regulate such activity. (In EC Knight, of course, the Court says the effects are no more than indirect; that there is a distinction between manufacture and commerce and that Congress may not regulate the sugar monopoly in question.)
1905 focuses us again on the EFFECT upon commerce ... and allows the government to regulate pricing in stockyards wholly within one place, arguing that sales are a part of commerce and have direct effects on interstate commerce (Swift & Co. v. US)
In Southern Rail v. US (1911) the Court says feds can regulate inside a state if there is "a real or substantial relation or connection" between what is required by the federal rule and "the safety of interstate commerce and of those who are employed in its movement"
Next comes the Shreveport case -- Houston East & West Texas Railway v. US, 1913, -- where as Sandy notes, the Court allows the feds to regulate rates set within Texas for products shipped exclusively within Texas (since doing so allowed Texas to undercut the federally-set rates for those who wanted to ship through the geographically closer terminus in Shreveport, Louisiana) ... The congressional authority to regulate extends to all matters having "such a close and substantial relation to interstate traffic that the control is essential or appropriate to the security of that traffic, to the efficiency of the interstate service and to the maintenance of conditions under which interstate commerce may be conducted upon fair terms and without molestation or hindrance."
A coda to this line comes in Stafford v. Wallace (1922) where the Court, in an opinion by C.J. Taft, rules that Congress may control prices in the stockyards even where those stockyards are wholly contained within one state. "The stockyards," he rules, " are but a throat through which the current [of commerce] flows, and the transactions which occur therein are only incident to this current from the West to the East, and from one state to another."
In short, even in the era when the commerce clause was really up for grabs, the answer in the Minnesota case would likely have rested on the degree to which a link could be made between the thing being regulated and its link to interstate commerce. That the issue involves the Mississippi, one of America's superhighways of commerce then and now would seem to make this an easy case. If Congress chooses to regulate, the Commerce Clause provides an easy way to go ... with a pretty solid provenance.
In the end, it's true Marshall said that completely internal commerce could be left to a state ... but the expansion of the national economy has consistently shrunk the universe of things that are truly, completely internal to a state ... leaving the states, really, with little more than Marshall's own ultimate promise in Gibbons: The real protection is NOT in the law or the courts, but in politics:
"The wisdom and the discretion of Congress, their identity with the people and the influence which their constituents possess at elections, are, in this, as in many other instances ... the sole restraints on which they [the states] have relied to secure them from [the national government's] abuse." (Marshall in Gibbons).
4. This is not an entirely fair response, but I grew up on the Mississippi and my Dad loaded barges on the river. Plainly Congress can regulate what happens on the river, under the commerce power or the admiralty power. Surely Congress can regulate what is shipped on the river while it is there, or prohibit some items from being shipped on the river at all. The real question is whether it can use shipment on the river as a hook to continue regulating the shipped goods after they leave the river. I would have said clearly yes before Lopez; now I'm not sure. But Lopez seems to affirm the use of jurisdictional hooks to tie transactions to commerce, and shipment on the river ought to be one.
If it matters for purposes of increasing the technical hook, it is nearly certain that goods shipped any distance on a boundary river will cross back and forth across the state line. The boundary is the main channel between some pairs of states, the midpoint between others, but the channel will usually cross back and forth across the midpoint. Kentucky's boundary is the highwater mark on the north side of the Ohio, so no criss crossing of state lines there.
Most of Minnesota's part of the Mississippi is within the state, but it does mark the Minnesota-Wisconsin boundary in its lower reaches. Duluth is a different story. The water route from Duluth to Winona is across Lake Superior, through the Soo Canal, down the length of Lake Michigan, through the canal to the Illinois, down the Illinois to where it meets the Mississippi just north of St. Louis, and back up the Mississippi to Winona. A journey of more than 1000 miles, and definitely in interstate commerce. But still I suppose raising the question after Lopez whether having once traveled in interstate commerce is enough to support continued regulation.
5. Many thanks to those who responded - my mind must have been stuck back in 1821 or so. Post-Shreveport and post-1937, yes, I can see how the question would be answered differently. Bob Sheridan also brings up food for thought (and maybe a hypo exam question) about the interstate highway system. Anyway, thanks again.
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What does this show?
Well, one of the things it shows is that Con-law principles are viewed from different perspectives by different experienced minds and are thus subject to different interpretations. Reminds me of a remark from a law professor of mine, commenting on the notion of a colleague that seemed a little confusing:
"He's a little confused, I think...but on a higher level, of course."
Ba-dum!
I hope you enjoyed reviewing this exercise in Con-law noodling.